Is there any undergraduate being FRM holder

[laura1987]

Hi all,
Do you know whether there is any undergraduate student who is FRM holder. I am going to finish my 3rd year (major in quantitative Finance, a degree offered by department of Mathematics ) at university soon and I am very interested in FRM certificate. I really want to take the full exam of FRM 2009. However, after reading the study guide for FRM 2009, I was not really sure whether I can prepare well for full exam. After read through content of FRM level 1, I think I can handle it well. Therefore, I really want to take full exam for : challenging myself and also save part of the cost. So I just wonder whether there is any undergraduate student who could pass the full exam. I am looking forward from hearing from you.

Regards with thanks,
Laura.

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

Hi Laura,

It sounds like you are asking from the perspective of, is it reasonable/practical/achievable for an undergrad to expect to pass? I don't see why not...much of the FRM, after all, is academic. But practitioners arguably have an advantage given that GARP's method of administration does not lend itself to memorization as sufficient. But, okay, I myself don't know undergrads who've sat and passed...

This may be due to the work experience requirement, are you familiar with the qualifying titles? See qualifying FRM job titles

An undergrad can sit for the exam, no prereq precludes that. But to gain the certification, you need the work experience...David

 

[fabian_moa]

Hi all,
Do you know whether there is any undergraduate student who is FRM holder. I am going to finish my 3rd year (major in quantitative Finance, a degree offered by department of Mathematics ) at university soon and I am very interested in FRM certificate. I really want to take the full exam of FRM 2009. However, after reading the study guide for FRM 2009, I was not really sure whether I can prepare well for full exam. After read through content of FRM level 1, I think I can handle it well. Therefore, I really want to take full exam for : challenging myself and also save part of the cost. So I just wonder whether there is any undergraduate student who could pass the full exam. I am looking forward from hearing from you.

Regards with thanks,
Laura.​

Hi Laura,

I graduated with a Bachelor of Science in Mathematics in 2007. I sat for the FRM® 2008 Examination and passed. Unfortunately, I am not qualified to use the FRM designation yet (due to insufficient working experience). Being an undergraduate does not mean you will have any difficulty in attempting the examination.

My advice to you is that if you want to take up the full examination, you will have to prepare EARLY (which I think David will agree with me).

From,
Fabian Moa AMIMA
(Also a 1987)

 

[laura1987]

Thanks fabian_moa for your inspired reply!

Could I ask you 1 question? As David mentioned above "But practitioners arguably have an advantage given that GARP’s method of administration does not lend itself to memorization as sufficient.", did you find that as an undergraduate, without any significant experience in risk management , it's very tough to deal with require-deep-understanding questions ? How did you do to surpass those tough questions? Is it by preparing early, carefully with deep thinking for the exam's materials?

Sorry for my curiosity .

Regards with thanks,
Laura.

 

[fabian_moa]

“But practitioners arguably have an advantage..."

Well, experience can be double-edged. I found that there were candidates who were fighting with their inner conscience on which is the correct answer during the examination. Of course, it will be good to have some "experience" in order to help you get accustomed to the syllabus.

"...much of the FRM, after all, is academic"

I do agree with David that the examination is more "academic". Really. Otherwise, how would someone with zero experience (me) pass the examination. There are, however, practical questions where you will have to think hard and reason out the answer.

"...given that GARP’s method of administration does not lend itself to memorization as sufficient.”

I find memorization necessary but not sufficient. Last year, the examination came up with a lot of "The following statements are not true except: " questions. Reasoning out may not be useful always. You will also need to memorize the case studies (e.g. Barings, LTCM, etc) and know why they failed. The list goes on... You will have to memorize the formulae. (e.g. Black-Scholes Model, Binomial Pricing, Bond Valuation, Accrued Interest, Value-at-Risk, Default Risk, etc.)

------------------

So, did I find it hard? NO. It could be my background in Mathematics that helped to make the learning easier. I started early in April, spending averagely 2 hours per day looking through the materials (handbook & core readings). I summarized the notes and also the part regarding calculations (i.e. what are the procedures to calculate the Greeks). Try to understand the materials before you memorize.

The questions were actually very straightforward. Time management during examination is very important. You will find yourself fighting against time.

I hope I answered your questions. I would also like to apologize if I have offended any readers.

Regards.

 

[laura1987]

Yes, your reply answers my queries. Thank you very much, Fabian

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

I think Fabian's reply is *really* informative.

I did indeed mean that memorization is "necessary but not sufficient." In my experience, some candidates without experience (which might include undergrads) who are accustomed to memorization as the sole technique, can be challenged because the questions will not necessary map with a clean, obvious 1:1 correspondence to the AIMs/Learning outcomes. Put more cynically, the exam is less susceptible to exam-taking techniques per se (i.e., memorize this formula, then use the formula) and clearly GARP is intent to continue to move this direction in 2009. Part of what it means, I think, to aspire to a "practice-oriented exam" (note: this is part of the stated mission, along with the aspiration to derive questions from "real-world" work experience) is that some questions may be (and should be) operating at a interdisciplinary or interpretative level "above" the memorized formulas.

I find two things additionally interesting about Fabian:

1. 2 hrs/day starting from April. Sounds like at least 400 hours, but more importantly, starting early and with regularity. Disciplined preparation, as with almost anything, can overcome any challenge.
2. Fabian majored in math. I *think* this makes a difference. I think the experience can be very different for non-quants. With that background, I assume Fabian could read all of the readings without struggle. I have customers, on the other hand, who don't have that backgound and consequently there is additional work or much additional work. (if you look at this year's reading list, math is everywhere. For those learning the math, many of these readings require additional effort to process the technical foundation)

David

 

[fabian_moa]

Given the amount of materials to cover, if I had not started in April, then I don't think I would have time to look through the materials again. I did not have "much" struggle, just a lot of readings, readings, and readings. I think I did spend about 400 hours on it. Maybe less.

This year's syllabus is quite interesting, with all the new modules and readings (especially on Altman's). You are right, there's more math this time around, which makes it even more challenging.

You must have an exciting job, training people to sit for the FRM Examinations. It is by no means an easy feat and I must congratulate you on your fine work (although I'm not your customer). Keep up the good work, David.

Regards~