BionicTurtle Review

[Dmitrij]

Hi David,

I promised I'd follow up with a thorough review once the results of the exam were in. More on that in a second. I took Part I and Part II on a single day (a week before my 20th birthday), having prepared for a total of <300 hours. (Perhaps even less, probably like <100 hours for part II).

I just received an e-mail with the wonderful news that I passed both parts. Part I: 1st in 4 areas, 2nd in 1. Part 2: 2nd, 1st, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd. Not that the percentiles/quartiles matter anymore. About my day at the exam: I remember booking a hotel and, despite the wonderful beds and everything, not being able to fall asleep until 3am. Had to wake up at 6 in the morning, and it was all exams until 6 in the evening (with some breaks, thank God.) It was one of the most mentally demanding things I'd ever done. But it's all good now.

I wanted to thank you very much for your help. Your practice questions were great and the official readings for part I (I didn't order part II books, just used BT) were absolutely horrible. I could go on and praise you for a long time. However, to improve your product I will sum up what I think can be improved. After all, BT is a business, not a charity, and to gain more customers the negatives should be stressed and not only the positives.

First of all, what I really missed was a PDF manual with a detailed guide to using the website. Especially the way of finding the videos and which videos and study materials to use (for ex, some 2010 stuff was suitable for 2011 learning, yet it was not mentioned anywhere in detail.) Also, it took a long time to find out how the forum structure worked with the questions, and that I should respond in the forum rather than on the comment section on the website. When I eventually, after some hours, found out how it all worked - everything was great. Content-wise there is very little I can mention except for the typos here and there. However, the navigation is something that needs a description. I think you have some form of the "curse of knowledge", having built the website yourself and thereby knowing where everything is located. This is definitely not the case for some visitors. Seeing a list of 200 items, I had no idea where to start and in which order to watch the videos.

Thus, a PDF that is, so to speak, idiot-proof would be very nice. Arrows, screenshots, stuff like that. Like the CEO in the movie margin call said: "explain it as if you were talking to a dog, or a small child".

Another very small thing: you probably re-edit videos to use useful bits of previous years' material. However, sometimes when you edit videos together, the ending gets chopped off a bit. When working through the material, it is very nice to hear a "This is David from BT. I hope you enjoyed bla bla, and hopefully this video was useful in blbla.." A full outro (even if it's the same very single time) gives good motivation to continue. When a video abruptly stops it feels kind of empty, having watched an hour of fairly difficult stuff.It's minor, but I think hearing a "this video is completed, you have reached the ending" is sort of nice.

Then: typos. You definitely are aware of this, and I don't want to rub it in. I would rather have a flawed navigation and a black and white times new roman website than pondering 30 minutes on why an equation doesn't make sense. Please quadruple check answers to equations. This is, of course, the plague of all instructors.

That's all negative feedback I could think of. All the rest is pretty irrelevant. I loved your videos. The way you tell things is very clear, very "ear friendly". I loved the fact that you have student discounts. Please display this more prominently. Response time on the forum was terrific. The value for money of the BionicTurtle package is not just good; it's great. Learning PDFs were very neat, very professional and extremely useful.

My writing isn't usually this disorganized and messy. It's late, and I'm very happy with the e-mail I got from GARP. Any additional comments I might have tomorrow will be posted here below.

 

[LeeBrittain]

One additional area that I think would provide great value would be to have full-length BT practice exams. While the detail and difficulty of BT practice questions is superior, I think there is something missing from not having full length practice exams to prepare you for the experience of test day.

 

[Prashant Raje]

i fully agree wiith lee i too have a navigation problem on BT and dearly miss full length question paper

 

[Hend Abuenein]

Hi David,
I just logged in to buy the 2012 L2 products, but the page still says FRM L2 2011 product.
Like Dmitrij mentioned here, I don't know whether I should start with 2011 videos since they are still good for 2012, or wait until you upload the new ones.

It would also be very helpful if you could guide us as where to begin and how to progress with the products available.

There's a lot here to work with and hardly enough time. And in L1 a lot of time was lost in finding the best way to progress (taking into account the overlapping nature of the topics)

Should I read notes, see videos, then practice questions for every AIM?...or would it be better for time management concerns to cover all notes then review with videos and then practice the questions?

Thanks again.

 

[Dmitrij]

@Hend - I found the greatest benefit from watching all videos one after another. By the time you're done, some of the knowledge will be lost, and you can quickly refresh it with the notes. After reading the notes, I did the questions, trying to do them all without looking at the notes.

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

Dmitrij,

A superb post (I've read it several times). Thank you for your detailed and generous comment. I totally agree that "the negatives should be stressed and not only the positives."
I generally agree with your comments and several items are worthy of attention (btw, we are introducing full length/mock exams).

But can I first ask a clarifying question with respect to organization ("curse of knowledge"):
Did you use (and are you aware of) the Study Planner here, which sorts by Topic or Most Recent?

I wish to first understand if (i) you simply were not aware of the Planner, (ii) did not find it useful or (iii) experienced this disorientation despite "I had no idea where to start and in which order to watch the videos." ... as we carefully built/designed the Study Planner to give paid members a map? Thank you, David

 

[Dmitrij]

I used the study planner, but it took me quite a while to figure out its mechanics. It's very difficult for me to explain what didn't go very well. Maybe you should find some people, and pay them a small amount to browse and test your website. Then monitor their behaviour and see where the difficulty lies. The problem is that I now know exactly where everything is and I am no longer really aware what the issues were when I first started using the site...tricky, no? I do remember that I had some difficulties finding my way around.

I think you should have some description similar to "The FRM Part I Foundations consists of these Authors. We have ordered the questions sets according to the author. They are listed consecutively in order of the official readings. For example, after seeing Video 1.X, which treats Author T, U, W, you could look at Questions A, B, C." And then add some screenshots. "The beginning of each video and the study notes list the authors treated. If you would like to solve some questions, refer to the questions X,X. This is the case for all quesitons."

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

@Hend: our developers are pushing a new page update in the next few days with the 2012 offering product page (we are offering three price tiers). With respect to the rest of your questions, I am working hard on all of it, we will be sending an email and an announcement. Thanks, David

 

[Dmitrij]

Also note that a "quickstart guide" isn't urgent. It would be very useful though. Eventually most people will find out how the website works. The interaction on the forum should be stressed on the other hand. I found out about the purpose of the forum only very late.

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

Hi Dmitrij,

I agree the need for an overview/orientation (the "PDF manual" or quickstart Guide). Our team is currently chatting this (it is only an issue of resources and time, of course!), but I want to add this ASAP, so probably we will implement this. In any case, I get and agree with the need for help with respect to the NAVIGATION

I just wanted to finish my response to your helpful points:

Re: "Maybe you should find some people, and pay them a small amount to browse and test your website." We have done this already, at least four iterations. I have actually spent many thousands of dollars to improve (~ $15,000 i would estimate i have spent on "usability" specifically, including UX experts). The Study Planner is the result and, even now, I will seek tweak-improvements. One issue is our freemium model: it is inherently hard to organize free + paid materials. Another issue is: you can never satisfy everybody with respect to navigation. (Often times the objection is general and without specific merit or does not really find an operational solution, alas). The current Study Planner seems to survive considerable *specific* scrutiny. The forum, too, is partly "disorganized" only because we duplicate Q&A to avail the questions to dialog (I could easily improve an perception issue intra-forum, but i prefer the openness that allows random comments from anyone at anytime!).. Finally, we are keeping it fresh with new material. If we dialed back fresh content, in favor of organization, like some competitors, we could greatly improve the perception. My problem is: it would no longer reflect my faith in "learning by doing" in which, i admit, i have a bias for more, fresh questions that can be socialized over *both* quality perfection and organizational optics.

Re: videos and polish on the end: thank you, I wasn't focused on that but will pay closer attention (as you probably are aware, there is something of a trade-off between speed and production quality)

Re: typos: I am aware of typos keenly due to the forum. I agree philosophically but, if you want the truth, in our model there is not time to "quadruple check answers to equations." Now, I could lock-down the fresh content, more or less, stabilize the massive Q&A database, and focus totally on fixing bugs. But this would be a significantly higher standard than even GARP (this year, like every year, I will be sending GARP corrections for their practice question errors. Let me repeat, for five years running, we are quality exporter to GARP, we correct their errors, despite massively fewer resources and much more work to do). But, still, this total focus on quality (perfection) would not reflect my belief; e.g., today I would rather write 3 new practice questions for the new reading assignment, then go back to older questions. The reality is, there is a trade-off here.

Re: I loved the fact that you have student discounts: thank you, we will keep these, for sure!

Re: full-length practice exams: as mentioned, we are introducing these in 2012

I hope that isn't defensive, as i generally agree with your review and find it extremely helpful! Although you have passed, please visit in the future ...

David

 

[Dmitrij]

David, to save you thousands of dollars of up-front investment, you could automatically send an e-mail to people who freshly signed up (Paid) to this website after an x amount of days of usage/downloads. State that you would like to improve the website and it would be great if they could offer suggestions/tips related to navigation. I think that's better than spending money. If I were in my 2nd week of studying for the FRM, I would be willing to give a short feedback with my issues at that point in time .

Also, nothing's perfect. The typo thing is indeed philosophical. I have written dozens of essays, quadruple checking them, to find an error a month later by chance. Still, it's not a bad thing to keep in mind, if only to keep the standard at the high level it is now.

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

Dmitrij - Tried it, twice (e.g., we paid a consultant earlier this year to phone interview customers), it doesn't really work: almost all don't follow through (partly b/c they aren't paid so it isn't a priority.) But the bigger issue is that candidates (let me be specific: we are referring to people who have yet to sit for the exam) don't have a good perspective, they conflate content/topic/FRM syllabus issues with site issues; but, mostly, they have an entirely different priority. The average candidate starts the cycle with a timing intention, but ends up "behind their own planning curve" and soon gets into a mode where, all they want from us is, our help with their exam concerns. (understandable, yes?). The data you do get is not a large sample and not highly actionable. It is EASY to get a general comment "I am confused" (or not to pick on Hend's, statements, which only negates: "lot of time was lost in finding the best way to progress") Candidates are pretty bad, as a group, at giving specific, actionable, logical recommendations. In our many years of soliciting this sort of feedback from candidates, I have maybe one or two good inputs from a customer on this.

On the other hand, you have a passed the exam (I really mean: can look at everything objectively in your rear view mirror). You are in a 10x better position to say ...

On a practical level, you still end up with several itemized recommendations which often conflict. For every critique, somebody else finds it a useful feature. At our evolution, you still need an expert (expensive) filter, far as i can tell. "Information Architecture" is, ultimately, an expensive endeavor, done correctly, because: each individual feedback does not build a consensus.

I don't disagree with further sampling, like we have always done, but i can tell you confidently, that further UX/navigation improvements, for us, cannot be done cheaply when you consider the whole process. Thanks, David

 

[Dmitrij]

Fair enough. It does make sense that everyone is in a hurry and wants quick results, and that no useful feedback is given. Shame, really.

But anyway, David, these are minor issues in general. You should know that once you reach this level of nitpicking over details, you have a solid product. It's like determining the right position of a print screen key on a keyboard. It's a small bonus, but the important thing is that the whole product works. You don't hear many complaints over content, which is what this course is meant for. It's like complaining over the position of the size of the airco button in a BMW; sure it's valid, but no-one really cares with all the other stuff the car has to offer.

I don't know if you have this already, but what I would love to see in the future (when everyone goes tablet computer) is to have native iPad BT support, where videos can be viewed on the go and saved to the tablet. There were so many times I wished I had a tablet when I was in the train or in the bus, to read BT pdfs or to see the lectures. That's a major thing you can worry about if you get bored. Also, there might be room for ERP/CFA. The fact that other providers do it doesn't mean you cannot do it better. Those are the two exams I'm taking next, and you already have some brand value to convince me to buy those packages (if you had them).

 

[Hend Abuenein]

@Hend - I found the greatest benefit from watching all videos one after another. By the time you're done, some of the knowledge will be lost, and you can quickly refresh it with the notes. After reading the notes, I did the questions, trying to do them all without looking at the notes.

Thanks Dmitrij. Sounds good to me.

 

[Imad]

Hi David,

I promised I'd follow up with a thorough review once the results of the exam were in. More on that in a second. I took Part I and Part II on a single day (a week before my 20th birthday), having prepared for a total of <300 hours. (Perhaps even less, probably like <100 hours for part II).

I just received an e-mail with the wonderful news that I passed both parts. Part I: 1st in 4 areas, 2nd in 1. Part 2: 2nd, 1st, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd. Not that the percentiles/quartiles matter anymore. About my day at the exam: I remember booking a hotel and, despite the wonderful beds and everything, not being able to fall asleep until 3am. Had to wake up at 6 in the morning, and it was all exams until 6 in the evening (with some breaks, thank God.) It was one of the most mentally demanding things I'd ever done. But it's all good now.

I wanted to thank you very much for your help. Your practice questions were great and the official readings for part I (I didn't order part II books, just used BT) were absolutely horrible. I could go on and praise you for a long time. However, to improve your product I will sum up what I think can be improved. After all, BT is a business, not a charity, and to gain more customers the negatives should be stressed and not only the positives.

First of all, what I really missed was a PDF manual with a detailed guide to using the website. Especially the way of finding the videos and which videos and study materials to use (for ex, some 2010 stuff was suitable for 2011 learning, yet it was not mentioned anywhere in detail.) Also, it took a long time to find out how the forum structure worked with the questions, and that I should respond in the forum rather than on the comment section on the website. When I eventually, after some hours, found out how it all worked - everything was great. Content-wise there is very little I can mention except for the typos here and there. However, the navigation is something that needs a description. I think you have some form of the "curse of knowledge", having built the website yourself and thereby knowing where everything is located. This is definitely not the case for some visitors. Seeing a list of 200 items, I had no idea where to start and in which order to watch the videos.

Thus, a PDF that is, so to speak, idiot-proof would be very nice. Arrows, screenshots, stuff like that. Like the CEO in the movie margin call said: "explain it as if you were talking to a dog, or a small child".

Another very small thing: you probably re-edit videos to use useful bits of previous years' material. However, sometimes when you edit videos together, the ending gets chopped off a bit. When working through the material, it is very nice to hear a "This is David from BT. I hope you enjoyed bla bla, and hopefully this video was useful in blbla.." A full outro (even if it's the same very single time) gives good motivation to continue. When a video abruptly stops it feels kind of empty, having watched an hour of fairly difficult stuff.It's minor, but I think hearing a "this video is completed, you have reached the ending" is sort of nice.

Then: typos. You definitely are aware of this, and I don't want to rub it in. I would rather have a flawed navigation and a black and white times new roman website than pondering 30 minutes on why an equation doesn't make sense. Please quadruple check answers to equations. This is, of course, the plague of all instructors.

That's all negative feedback I could think of. All the rest is pretty irrelevant. I loved your videos. The way you tell things is very clear, very "ear friendly". I loved the fact that you have student discounts. Please display this more prominently. Response time on the forum was terrific. The value for money of the BionicTurtle package is not just good; it's great. Learning PDFs were very neat, very professional and extremely useful.

My writing isn't usually this disorganized and messy. It's late, and I'm very happy with the e-mail I got from GARP. Any additional comments I might have tomorrow will be posted here below.

Hi Dimitrij,

Congratulations for passing Part I and II. I'd like to ask you whether you studied only in BT materials or you did extra work. I studied in Schweser and did not pass level II. Appreciate your comments.

Thanks

 

[Dmitrij]

Hi Dimitrij,

Congratulations for passing Part I and II. I'd like to ask you whether you studied only in BT materials or you did extra work. I studied in Schweser and did not pass level II. Appreciate your comments.

Thanks

Dear Imad,

For part I, I used both BionicTurtle and the official readings, and I had some prior knowledge due to taking additional courses at my university (CAPM for example). Part II was exclusively BionicTurtle. I don't even have the official readings, although I do have John Hull's "Options, futures and other derivatives, 7th ed." lying around as a separate book. BT videos and slides were enough for me to pass L2, despite being under-prepared compared to Part I. Think I spent 75-100 hours on part II maximum. Though, I suggest you take at least 150 with BT to be on the safe side.

 

[Irena]

Hi David

I see you are open to comments. I found out about Bionic Turtle while studying for November 2011 exam (I got frustrated by the Kaplan Schweser notes). At that time I contemplated buying Bionic Turtle products on top, but in the end I decided it was too late.

Already at that point I managed to find lots of positive reviews about Bionic Turtle, but what I would have liked is a preview of the products. I suspect that will come shortly. For me that is the determining factor in deciding about the product. On the other hand it is true that I got convinced by reading through the forum, because I got the feeling that you are trying to explain so that the candidates would understand, while my impression with Kaplan Scweser was more that they were trying to get people to memorize.

I am about to buy the product for Part II exam in May 2012 -- as soon as the discount code is through.

Kind regards
Irena

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

Hi Irena,

Thanks for your interest! And yes, this forum is actually unmoderated, so we must be open to comments (is there any other way?)

Re: memorization: yes, that is true, going the route of conceptual understanding is hard work for everybody (including candidates) but I couldn't care about the business if the goal was merely to pass the exam (or any exam). In my view, the exam is a means to an end. Or one of two ends, not mutually exclusive, i think: intrinsic (learnings, skill) and/or external (job, career). If those are the ends, then memorization (while sometimes necessary) cannot be sufficient. Nor is it satisfying ...

We sample pretty much everything, I just asked Suzanne to help, she will show you the links. Thanks!

 

[Suzanne Evans]

HI Irena,

Yes, we do sample everything EXCEPT the xls spreadsheets. All of the premium contents all have a "View Sample" button option that can be selected when you are not a paying customer.

Please see our samples FAQ here for examples.

Thanks,
Suzanne

 

[Irena]

Hi David and Suzanne

Thanks for your answers. I see the sample files now. I would propose that you have access to those samples from the Product page. I will explain in more detail what I mean. I started from your main page that shows FRM 2012, which covers half of my tiny display. A click on "Buy our FRM Product here." took me to https://www.bionicturtle.com/products/financial-risk-management. This page nicely presents the differences between different options. I scrolled down to where the descriptions are. Then I selected "Videos" or "Spreadsheets" or "Study Planer" and always got a pop-up windows saying "Coming shortly - stay tuned". Here is where I would expect that choosing "Videos" or something else would lead me to a page with samples.

This forum already turned into my new obsession, great job.
Irena