Schedule Concern

[hsuwang]

Hello David,
I'm sorry to bring this up again, I know many concerns were raised already about the current schedule to cover topics for the 09' FRM exam, and I know how hard it must've been for you and your team to try to catch up with the late AIM release this year; however, we have less than 4 months left before the exam and 5 more topics to be covered, I'm a bit concerned now since it's almost half way through August and with the old schedule we should already be moving into credit risk. I have full confidence that BT will eventually be able to cover everything on time, but is it realistic to try to absorb the entire Level II material in the time remaining? (It's been over 2 weeks since the last video tutorial publish, and this really worries me)
Thanks!

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

Jack,

Great, this post after i spend an hour on your CTD futures example, after you wrote me an email to follow-up on the post. That was time not spent on the movies, btw. Seriously, I was early thinking I didn't have time to spend on your question b/c i needed to work the movies, but your wrote me an email so i worked that problem....

Seriously, i could work faster if i removed the forum? do you think BT should remove the forum?

Or, Satuday, i did a focus review which takes hours to prepare. Should I kill the rest of the focus reviews, that would save a lot of prep time?

This constant pressure over the schedule frustrates me--not just because i've driven myself and my team into the ground almost literally. GARP nearly doubled the course (or whatever is the multilplier) and decided to conduct L1+2 as an experiment. (you can figure the motive, I'm sure). We didn't change our price....

You ask me: "is it realistic to try to absorb the entire Level II material in the time remaining?"

a) This is the first and only year for this Full exam. Do i think it's realistic? No, i think it's a little bit insane. Have you seen the sample exams? Based on those, even GARP is unclear how to treat all the material!? (althoght, it's easier if you have a semi-regard for quality and precision-yes?) I have a question for you: how are other course providers handling this? I suspect they are not covering every AIM? Can you link me to a provider who is handling it better (It's hard for me to imagine anybody worker harder than we have....so i'd be interested). Please?
b) Don't wait for me...the full exam this year is *extremely* challenging, please don't act like you are waiting on me to start reading some of that material. Does $399 (at 20% or 10%, or in some cases, 5% of the cost of some competitors) justify that burden?

to be really honest, the problem i really have is: I started BT to help people learn the concepts, I care about the quality of the learning. The constant pressure feels like you want me to close the forum or stop focus reviews or dialog with customers...I regret GARP's approach this year with the Full...all we can do is our best to meet that...if it's not enough, that okay...

Will we have to rush some of the L2? yea, unfortunately...
Do i think the schedule is mad and unfair? yea
What can i do about it now? not much

...in any case, i am proud of the product that has so far been deployed, i'll continue to work night and day to finish the full...I don't know what else i can do to satisfy you.

but in all sincerity, i am (i think?) the only course provider with an unmoderated forum (i.e., i have never deleted or edited an entry) and so i must be candid about this: the Full Exam 2009 will be a challenge and a stress down the stretch. (Plus, the actual exam is likely to be very volatile against the assignments) For $399 and the service we provide, I don't believe the BT deserves the to carry the full stress of that: GARP created an insane set against a difficult schedule. For them, it's just more revenue. For us, it's double the workload and stress of being a guinea pig for the first and only Full.

I would much rather you just get a refund than distract us constantly with schedule questions. Is that fair?

thanks, David

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

Jack,

I just went to the GARP site and, for the first two course providers (my competitors) i happened to click on, they both *start* their lectures in September (and, btw, the cost looks to be 10x - 20x more than us. Wow, I just realized we are way too cheap...). And, as i look at some of these lecture schedules, I can see it is *clearly* impossible for them to include everything in so few relative hours...

I look at the other providers and perceive BT is *ahead* of the pack .. can you help me, is my expectation created merely because i created a calendar based on information that wasn't true at the time. If i hadn't have published an (obviously) flawed calender (and for the love of god, believe me it will *never* happen again), would you feel this way? Can you link me to a provider who is further along in regard to video instruction? Please advise...

David

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

I just consulted with my colleague. For what it's worth, we can save many hours by eliminating the planned live focus reviews (i.e., divert that extra time to the tutorial production). In the interest of the schedule, then, I will probably cancel those...

..and since the forum takes up a lot of my time, we plan to re-evaluate this forum and how it's used ....maybe it just doesn't pencil out... thanks, David

 

[Eveline]

Hi David,

Just want to drop a note to thank you for the great teaching that you have given us, and I'm truly very very grateful. I too receive brochures from other competitors and I agree that Bionic Turtle is just way too cheap compared to them. And the syllabus this year for the Full Exam is crazy.

For me, I learn from the old video clips of 2007 and 2008 that you made and they pretty much do a good job of explaining most of the concepts. Then I try the questions that you supply in the quiz and last year's questions. It's about 90% covered! I just refresh my concepts when the new videos for this year come on.

I skip the notes you write (sorry David, no time!!!) I thought maybe you can leave out writing the notes for this year. My experience is that the videos do a great job by themselves!!! But I do find the forum useful.

I thought maybe this sharing of my experience can be helpful to those out there who are worried that we are behind. I study from the old videos, that's the answer! And I use the FRM handbook to complement. They have a CD-ROM of practice questions too! And I'm open to paying more, not because I'm rich, but because I truly appreciate David's fantastic teaching. Hope this helps all the frantic students and hope David can find some way to reduce the workload (maybe don't supply the notes!) Most people don't like reading anyway and sometimes after reading you still have to learn how to apply the concepts!

Hope this helps.

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

Jack: Instead of working on the movie tutorial that i was working on before you posted this (it's 11:30 pm), I just clicked thru the GARP training providers. https://www.garp.com/frmexam/courseproviders.aspx

Here's what i learned: we seem to be leading in progress. I can't find anybody further along?

Can you? please show me the link please? Can you please show me who is further along than us, among all of these fine prestigious institutions?

The main thing i get from clicking thru the competitors, aside from the fact we have so much more fresh material at this point, is that we are quite a bit underpriced relative to our competition.

Thanks, David

 

[hsuwang]

Hello David,
Before I say anything, I would first like to apologize for unintentionally causing this frustration. I really do appreciate everything you've done to help candidates prepare for the FRM, especially for how much help you've given me in the past few months. I've always felt that I'm taking too much advantage of the resources given the price I paid, and I really can't thank you enough for that.

About the forum posts, the reason I wrote an e-mail to you wasn't because I was trying to give you a hard time, I was just trying to make sure the forum update notice to you is still working (because you replied to more recent posts). I'm totally fine if you did not have time for my post, but I was just making sure that there wasn't something wrong with the technical stuff. I do apologize for giving you the wrong impression.

About the post about BT schedule, I hope I was giving emphasis about whether it was realistic to absorb level 2 in the remaining time, if not, I was thinking about changing my exam to only Level 1. I wasn't trying to give you and your team any more pressure.

Finally, I have never thought about comparing BT to other competitors. I knew I've made the right decision to stick with Bionic Turtle. Again, I never intend to give you any negative feelings. To be honest, I was really surprised to see a reaction like this, and that is why I really apologize for what I've said or done.

I'm sorry for taking up your time. I never meant to cause any of this trouble.

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

Hi Eveline,

Thank you so much for your supportive note!
Your feedback about the notes is *very* interesting, I think we will consider that for next year ...
... one thing that is interesting is that individuals vary widely in what they find helpful; e.g., some customers get much benefit from the XLS, while many (i suspect) never look at a single one!

Thank you, too, for the saying "you are open to paying more." That is the nicest thing you can say...In truth, I am proud of the low price b/c our plan is to serve the segments who maybe cannot afford the high prices (the irony is that you almost need a job with corporate reimbursement to afford expensive training). I am whining about about being underpriced, but actually that is our business plan, to reach a wider audience with lower cost help (so, i actually think the price should go down over time if we can get sponsorship and a wider audience). I'd like to offer meaningful free and paid services. But thank you for your support...David

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

Hi Jack,

Thank you but you don't need to apologize: you are the customer, you can say whatever you want and you don't need to feel sorry about it. (I guess frankness is sometimes an outcome in an unmoderated forum?)

About the forum post: i do see them, the are flagged for me. But i knew yours would take an hour to fully address (and you'll notice, I still didn't really hit your last point). Some forum posts take me an hour or more if they are really tricky (e.g., if i need to do research). So it's pure triage ... the forum is currently, definitely a dilemna because, on the one hand, it takes up time, but on the other hand, I started BT to engage in the conversational learning (i've learned more from the forum myself thru the questions than i ever thought possible). The schedule pressure is definitely already there, but at the end of the day, I feel it's very important if somebody wants to discuss even a small point.

Re: "About the post about BT schedule, I hope I was giving emphasis about whether it was realistic to absorb level 2 in the remaining time, if not, I was thinking about changing my exam to only Level 1. I wasn’t trying to give you and your team any more pressure."
Okay, right, sorry I was defensive and didn't read your query this way. The thing is, i don't really know what's realistic. Last year, we met our calendar and although that exam had too much tracking error vis-a-vis assignments, last year's cirriculum was "realistic." This L2, on a literal reading of the AIMs, feels like they just threw the kitchen sink at the exam in an effort to increase its size. (all i can say is: i've taught most of it before, and i can barely get thru teaching it, so learning it has got to be on the difficult/unreasonable/insane side of things)

you didn't cause any trouble...it's just an earnest thread...no worries!

thanks, David

 

[ajsa]

I just consulted with my colleague. For what it's worth, we can save many hours by eliminating the planned live focus reviews (i.e., divert that extra time to the tutorial production). In the interest of the schedule, then, I will probably cancel those...

..and since the forum takes up a lot of my time, we plan to re-evaluate this forum and how it's used ....maybe it just doesn't pencil out... thanks, David​

Hi David,

First I like to thank you very much for providing BT. I have found it is extremely valuable and I totally agree it is undervalued compared to its competitors.

Frankly, I do not think it is realistic to handle all the work yourself with so much time constrain (Notes, Tutorials Video, Review Video, Spreadsheet, Answering Forum questions, posting/vetting handbook/sample exam questions, Practice Question, questions from textbooks, formula sheet, Blog...), so at this point, you may have to make some decision to prioritize and change. Maybe you can initiate a vote and let subscribers to sort the priorities in their minds, and i think that is the most fair thing you can do. (and maybe more customer-oriented)

For me, I use your notes as my primary study materials, and use Schweser Notes as a complementary. I am always amazed how concise and comprehensive your notes are, compared to Schweser's. Schweser Notes' 5 books have over 1600 pages in total, and I have found most of the time I can grasp the concepts by reading your bullet points and concise explainations, without going through many paragraphs in Schweser Notes. If i have questions after reading note I normally try to find clarification in the video tutorial and ask on the forum. Frankly however, I found most of the time note covers more than video, maybe due to the nature of video class. Then I condense what I learned into my notes for future reviews.

If I could have only one study source for FRM exam, I would definitely choose your notes!! and I am confident that I can pass if I can thoroughly understand them.

So for me, the preference order is
1. Notes
2. Answering Forum questions
3. formula sheet
4. handbook question /sample exam question errata
(a. I do understand that the video tutorial is BT's selling point, and I am fine with that. But maybe Review Videos can be eliminated or replaced with "review notes" or formula sheet.

b. I totally understand answering forum questions takes you a lot of time, I am fine if you decide not to do it. Instead, you may
i. only answer questions that you found have caused a lot of confusions; and monitor and respond to the Errata forum
ii. try to encourage discussion among customers.
iii. try to attract more forum traffic from non-paying FRM exam takers, and encourage them to use this forum as a primary place to find answers to their questions. it is just like Analyst Forum which howerver strong in CFA not FRM, so BT can fill this vacuum. In that way, BT can get also more customers)

Again, thanks so much for all your time and efforts!

 

[sudeepdoon]

Hi David,

I am not surprised that this has come up in the forum; because I had a similar thought .( not that is BT on schedule.. but am on schedule... because I am following as per the send outs of your lecture).. but then I sat back and looked at the entire course remaining .. and that covered.. I had the following thoughts ( I may be wrong somewhere due to lack of experience...)

1. The topics covered so far as real big !! and consists the basics of the entire course and hence the time spend was needed and was well spend.

2. The topics that are remaining are build over the concepts learned so far so I guess it should be faster to understand them and they seems be me mainly a walk through of articles....

3. I have tried to prepare and make ppt and excel for the presentation I take as learning sessions in my office ( I am a Developer on a project called : Market Risk Reporting System). and I tell you I know what does it take to prepare these ....

David .. I would surely like to recognize you for all efforts put in by you for giving us the quality that we got..

And your forums....... They are the best ones... don't think to stop them man.... They are the only support for a person like me who is trying to tame a monster called FRM with no financial backgroud ..(and just 2 years exp in the system I am currently working one)


YOU ROCK !!!


Thanks,
Sudeep Manchanda

 

[sudeepdoon]

And yea to add to amount BT costs...... It is a blessing for me .and would like to thank you for this also... because I being in India and you know the exchange rate .. makes it real expensive for us go take any course.. Even BT costed me half my months salary..( as was before promotion ) but I would say its worth it...

and not to mention all the discounts that you have literally distributed to people..

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

Thank you each for the support and input. I realize I created the problem by publishing a calendar that (although well intentioned based on the information set I had at the time) was unrealistic to GARP's ultimate deployment of L1+L2. I fully realize that created an expectation. So that is my fault. After myself, I frankly put the responsibility on GARP for deploying such an massive reading list without, apparently, great concern for the implication on candidates (since there are almost as many readings as exam questions, the diligent candidate, it currently appears, must "overprepare" and cannot possibly be tested on the majority of the material).

@ajsa:

Thank you for the very thoughtful and constructive feedback.

Re the vote idea: except for the live focus reviews (where we can save time by eliminating those), Harsh (my colleague who helps with content) and I do not want to cut back on our commitments. We don't want to disappoint the customers who have paid for the full, so we feel we must follow thru on the full. We would rather find even more hours to devote (e.g., Harsh offered to give all his spare time). But, I do think the "vote" idea is *terrific* for post-November: I think we should survey the customers to ascertain which resources were valuable (to get the feedback you have given here).

Please note you have notes #1 and Eveline has notes last (if i understand). The only thing i've learned is individuals have different preferences. I am frankly surprised you like our notes better than Schweser: when potential customers are interested primarily in *notes,* I point them to Schweser because theirs are definitely denser/longer. I think we must survey. I am not sure we can "survive" with the notes, I feel we may need to "concede" this asset to Schweser. The notes take a tremendous amount of time and they are not profitable: because they are the easiest to pirate, soon after publication they are available on the net. Bottom line, the notes end up getting subsidized by the other products.

Thanks for your suggestions (b)!
Re: "i. only answer questions that you found have caused a lot of confusions; and monitor and respond to the Errata forum"
good idea, let me think about this...the thing is, if a customer takes the time to post a question, then they must perceive it to be a confusion, so not sure how to apply this criteria?

'Re ii. try to encourage discussion among customers."
right, well, that was my original *intent* with the forum, that was exactly the idea. I *think* what happens is: if you consider this moment in time, most candidates have only so much time to devote to the study (e.g., family, job) and it will not be as much as they like. So, they are typically stressed about digesting the material rather than "breaking" to help with something they already know. That's my best guess?

Re iii. "try to attract more forum traffic from non-paying FRM exam takers, and encourage them to use this forum as a primary place to find answers to their questions. it is just like Analyst Forum which however strong in CFA not FRM, so BT can fill this vacuum. In that way, BT can get also more customers)"
I love this idea. I have plans to grow the site (e.g., and give forum support to the ERP, for example) *after* we survive the Full 2009. Thank you for fabulous input and ideas, I really appreciate the *constructive* input!

@Sudeep,

Thank you very much...Especially for "The topics covered so far as real big !! and consists the basics of the entire course and hence the time spend was needed and was well spend." That's exactly why i regret the calendar pressure: I don't want rush the learning...

Re: forums, thank you for supporting the forum. I agree, on reflection, the *unmoderated* forum is too important to our value system to disable. (a moderated forum is a different story, it means the company wants to keep control. But an unmoderated forum signifies that control passes to the customer, where it should be, and where it will be inevitably anyway).

Re cost and "Even BT costed me half my months salary." Yes, I am well aware of the cost impact especially in India. I *deeply* regret that even our cost can be expressed as a meaningful fraction of a month's salary. That tells me we have a serious responsibility to you. That's not a goal I want to have though, learning should be affordable and we need to serve India. High prices will be a failure of our business model. I am personally sort of *embarrassed* at the all-in cost implied for an FRM candidate. It is a bias against those without corporate reimbursement. For what these high fees, exactly have we done, except formalize around a reading list? Fortunately, there is competition (both in the administration and in the provider space) and the transparency of the internet favors customer value in the long run...

David

 

[ajsa]

Hi David,

Please please please keep the Notes... it is an integral / organic part of BT's product line and student's learning cycle, and the Note is critical for student to review (repeatedly maybe), digest, and practice after viewing video tutorial. Another nice thing about BT's Notes is that it closely follows AIMs so student is confident in studying. After all it is also part of BT's commitment. BTW I think video files are also easy pirate. For pdf file, you can add password and change password for each note. There are many other ways to protect pdf if you search online. I think there are also technology out there that only allows user view it online but cannot download so can serve BT's purpose.

(problems of Schewser Notes: it dose not exactly follow AIM and reorganizes AIMs so reader can easily get lost and feel not assured; it tends to be too talkative sometimes but I found actually is not as clear and comprehensive as BT)

All in all, could you please keep the following as BT's "core" products and eliminate all others, so that BT can stay more focused?
1. Tutorials Video
2. Review Video
3. Note
4. Answering forum questions (optional)

Many thanks again!!

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

Hi ajsa,

I assume you are referring to post-November; i.e., the 2010 plan? Because Harsh and I are still committed to all assets for Nov 2009...

..but okay, I appreciate that f/back in regard to the study notes. I *wish* you valued the learning XLS but I understand they are not on your list
(the reason I personally find the learning XLS valuable, for finance at least, is they have *forced* me to learn the details. Unlike text, if you take say the pricing of a Treasury bond futures contract, well, there is no test like following the concrete mechanics of the XLS...maybe the issue is time constraints but most of my personal learning has come from building the XLS and not being able to fudge away from the solution)

...thanks too for input on the PDF copy protection. I have looked into a few systems but, in addition to their relatively high cost (but coming down; yet a cost here implies a higher product cost, and as i've said, i don't want to raise prices esp. due to international impact. You can argue it pays for itself, but i am unsure about this...) the key problem i have is that the protection methods generally inconvenience paying customers and add a support burden (which is an additional cost). An unrestricted PDF is easiest/most convenient for paying customers, so you hate to add a layer of inconvenience (have you tried GARP's locklizard? we constantly have problems with that, in addition to upgrades, print restrictions, etc)

but okay i take your feedback to heart, and as you originally suggested, we will definitely survey December (and share those results). thanks asja for your constructive input, it's invaluable...David

 

[ajsa]

Hi David,

I was talking about the plan for the November exam, as i registered for the full exam.

I surely like to go through your spreadsheets, the only thing is my time is limited as a full time professional. (That is also why I love notes, I can study them over and over in office, at bus station, on bus, even in bathroom.. basically wherever I can squeeze some time)

Thanks.

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

Hi ajsa - oh, okay, sorry: we have no plans to back down from the Full November (we are all hands on deck for that). The timing is impacted, not the deliverables...Folks paid full freight...David

 

[ajsa]

Hi David,

sorry I am confused. Are you saying BT plans to cover only Level I this year?
Foundations of Risk Management
Quantitative Analysis
Financial Markets and Products
Valuation and Risk Models
Or what should we expect in the next 3 months? (it is ok if you and your colleagues are still deciding the plan. it is no rush)

(could you please let me know if you will still answer questions on forum? I got stuck/confused with some option questions..)

Thanks.

 

[David Harper CFA FRM]

Hi asja,

We are, and always have been, committed to the Full Exam (Level I & Level II) for November 2009.
So, you can expect us to continue through to all 9 topics ....
the only change is *probably* I won't do the live focus summary reviews like i did last Saturday.
(In regard to other product feedback above, I was only referring to our plan for 2010 which would start December 2010. Sorry to confuse, I have no plans to eliminate resources for the Full 2009 exam)
yes, I will continue to monitor the forum...

Thanks, David

 

[narayananvenkat]

David..

I have been writing to you on the above topic for sometime.

1. We guys especially fullexam aspirants write to you on the above topics only because of anxiety to get more out of you and not to frustrate you as you are such a good person (rather only course provider) who has such a one to one rapport with the members.Also The time left out for remainig topics and our resources available it is indeed a major 'Factor" we exam candidates to factor in our plan .
2. My candid opinion is that your cram session in the end after all domain is over is by far superior to any final review offered (better than review webinars)
3. Also a simultanoeus release of study notes are also a fruitful resource.
Finally as on today definitely BT is unquestionalbly an excellent resource for this world top ranking course.
hope I didnot frustrate you further!!!
Regard
venkat